So. Let’s talk about Laras.
The Mistress of the White Tower kitchens is introduced in Chapter 29 of The Dragon Reborn. She is the first significant character who is described as being fat, specifically as being “more than merely stout, with layers of chins.” Despite the chins being lingered on once or twice, Laras’ size is not made to be the subject of ridicule or derision in the narration, and when Nynaeve, in a fit of pique, refers to Laras as “a sour lump of lard,” she is quickly brought down for her judgment of the woman by Siuan.
“You are a fine judge of character, child. You must have done well as the Wisdom of your village. It was Laras who went to Sheriam and demanded to know how long you three are to be kept to the dirtiest and hardest work, without a turn at lighter. She said she would not be a party to breaking any woman’s health or spirit, no matter what I said. A fine judge of character, child.”
Reading this section, I was pleased that the story had, however obliquely, put Nynaeve in her place not only for misjudging Laras’ character (Nynaeve has a history of misplacing her feelings of anger or worry onto other people) but for her choice to equate Laras’ size to (what she saw as) Laras’ inferiority. It seemed like the narrative, in teaching her this lesson, was calling out this fatphobic perspective.
However, the next fat character we encounter in the series is Keille Shaogi, in Chapter 36 of The Shadow Rising, whose fatness is treated very differently by the narration than Laras’ was when we met her.
“Mat looked around, and gave a start. The only woman in sight beside Aviendha and the Maidens was walking up from the second wagon, but she certainly did not match that voice, one of the loveliest he had ever heard. Rand frowned at her and shook his head, and he had cause. A foot shorter than Kadere, she must have weighed as much or more. Rolls of fat nearly hid her dark eyes, disguising whether they were tilted or not, but her nose was a hatchet that dwarfed the peddler’s. In a dress of pale-cream silk stretched tight around her bulk, with a white lace shawl held above her head on elaborate ivory combs thrust into long, coarse black hair, she moved with incongruous lightness, almost like one of the Maidens.
Where Laras’ body is mentioned as being more than stout, Keille’s fatness is dwelt upon here, and it continues through this and later chapters—in Chapter 48 she is casually referred to as “fat Keille,” as though the reader might have forgotten her weight after a few chapters spent away from Rand and his companions and need to be reminded. There is also a distinct judgment against fatness in the suggestion that she is too big for her clothes. But what struck me most of all was the fact that Mat is so perplexed by the idea that she could have a beautiful voice and ugly face, that she could be fat and yet graceful. The description of her “hatchet” nose and coarse hair add to this belief that there is an inappropriate mismatch between her body and her other traits. And to me, it is very clear that this mismatch is meant to be a clue to the reader that Keille is not who she seems.
Even though I have yet to discover the truth behind the peddler’s caravan, I am quite certain that they are Darkfriends, and that at least one of them is one of the Forsaken. There are clues for each of them. Isendre’s overt sexuality—so out of place among her companions—and special interest in Rand, for example. Rand also warns Mat about Keille’s partner, Kadere, pointing out that his expressions never reach his eyes. You always have to watch the eyes, Rand insists, alerting Mat (and therefore the reader) to the fact that Kadere is someone to be wary of.
It is perhaps symbolically significant, then, that Keille’s eyes are described as being nearly hidden behind rolls of fat. But the warning sign for Keille is not a pair of eyes that don’t match her expression, but rather the way her ugliness—of which fatness is the largest part—is pit against the grace and beauty of her voice and bearing. It is harped upon to make sure we pay attention, to arouse our suspicion, and it speaks to a narrative of fatphobia in our society so ingrained that many of us barely notice it.
My working theory is that Keille will turn out to be Lanfear, the world’s most beautiful woman shrouding herself in a disguise of great ugliness now that Rand knows her a little better. I hope that I am mistaken, because it feels like such a cheap trick, but I’ll eat my hat if Keille doesn’t turn out to be a thin woman in disguise.
Laras also returns in The Shadow Rising, and she has caught my attention again as possibly my favorite (or at least tied with Bayle Domon) tertiary character in the series. Although I appreciate how difficult it has been for Min to play the part of Elmindreda, it has been fun to get to know this side of Laras and her adventurous youth. Laras’s fondness for Elmindreda, and for memories of her own youth, is so strong that she’s willing to risk her own safety to help Siuan, someone she has no personal love for.
There is still some fatphobia in the narration about Laras. The word “waddling” is used, and there is a line about how difficult it is to believe that a woman with so many chins could have been a beauty. But I did notice the actual word “fat” is never actually applied to her. The word “stout” is, and her finger is described as being thick, but that loaded, forbidden word is not.
As many fat activists have pointed out, our culture treats “fat” like a dirty word, as though it had some implicit morality attached to it. And here we see that fact in action. Laras—a good and helpful character who supports one of our protagonists in her hour of need—never has the word applied to her. Keille—a cunning and clearly dangerous character who, along with her companions, is certainly a Darkfriend and probably one of the Forsaken—has it applied repeatedly and in such a way that the judgment of that state is quite clear.
It’s really hard to comment without spoiling anything (I don’t know if you read these or not!) but as an ugly person myself, it’s always a bit at the forefront of my mind when people want to dwell on ugliness (and this includes even in real life, such as the way people will routinely mock Trump’s appearance and weight) as a way to highlight some other aspect of personality or as a narrative shortcut.
This is distinct from a character who may be more or less average looking (or maybe even good looking) but whose expressions/behavior gives them a less than attractive look (leering, a look of disdain, haughtiness, scowling, etc). Cleanliness/hygiene is perhaps a different thing as well.
At any rate, I can’t comment much here but sometimes it can be hard to parse out what is Jordan’s commentery, and what is it that the character in particular believes and why they made that decision (particularly Keille’s alter ego). Or how much of that is just unconscious on Jordan’s part. But I will say that given what we know about the character, I fin that Keille’s look makes perfect sense.
Ah, the euphemism treadmill at work, with its usual short-time minor benefit and long-term major problems.
But, yes, Keille is so over-the-top, because she’s Lanfear, and Lanfear is so over-the-top she entered orbit years ago.
Doesn’t Daise Conger fit into this discussion? Looking forward we’ll have Chel Vanin a few books down the line.
Vanin, Daise, plenty of the Aes Sedai are all described as various terms of fat (Jordan likes plump as his euphemism of choice). There’s also no lack of ugly people described without any condemnation, from Uno to Gaidal to Olver and beyond.
While the description of Keile may be perceived as over the top, there’s more than enough people who don’t figure out she’s Lanfear until after the fact. Also, she’s viewed through Mat’s gaze most of the time and Mat’s not exactly inclined to moderate his internal monologue. I also don’t reckon Mat would stand up as being fatphobic, what with him having a bit of a preference for plump women. Lanfear just went so over the top that it was supposed to cause revulsion.
It is well to keep in mind that Mat is a shallow jerk. He has hidden depths, but the thoughts that are going through his head at any given moment are not necessarily terribly nice.
Our hero characters are written to be human, with human foibles and vices.
Ugh, I kinda hate these types of articles. First because the writer hasn’t read far enough (in my opinion) to speak on the topic yet, and second because it seems as if the writer (of the article) is complaining about the author (of the novel) including DESCRIPTIVE TEXT.
He’s describing a fat character as fat. He’s describing their gait, voice, hair color…lots of different things. He describes when Galad moves as “it was almost as if he were dancing instead of walking” and when Laras moves as a waddle. When Loial moves it is sometimes a “lumbering gait” or “stealthy despite his size”.
These are descriptions. They are not judgments. The author is describing the characters as they exist in his mind. Why are we even contemplating calling this “fat shaming”?
Furthermore, there are plenty of times that overweight characters have been described before Laras, and Jordan does a good job of making sure that it isn’t anything like fat=evil or anything like it. In tEotW, Rand even decides not to trust any more skinny innkeepers after his interaction with Saml Hake at the Dancing Cartman in Four Kings. Other innkeepers (and cooks, etc.) are described with varying weight and other characteristics all the time.
As for Keille being called ‘fat Keille’ I believe that is usually said by Isendre if aloud.
I suspect the incongruities of Keille’s voice and grace is a deliberate clue that she is not what she seems.
This article is incomplete because it does not address the fat innkeeper/skinny innkeeper dynamic.
(It also seems oddly behind where Sylas is in the main series of posts?)
Another thing to note is that Robert Jordan consciously uses the characters’ own POV in his third-party narration. So when Matt is noting Kelli’s fatness, it’s Matt’s thoughts on it. When Rand shakes his head at Kelli, it’s because he knows one of the 2 women is Lanfear and suspects it might be her. When Laras’ weight is emphasized, that too is an intentional reflection on the character rather than the author.
I feel the same thing is true regarding Sylas’ issue with breasts and nudity. When women’s breasts are described, it’s usually from someone like Elayne or Egwene, who as the youngest of our main characters is just reaching adulthood, and who has a personality that prompts her to observe other women’s bodies. After all, his own wife was his chief editor and she didn’t seem to have an issue with it.
Men are allowed to be fat. We haven’t met Vanin yet, but Rand only trusts fat innkeepers after his bad experience in Two Kings, and Gill fits that image of good fat innkeepers. Fain is another bad thin man. Only women have to be thin and beautiful, in men like Galad too much beauty is seen as a problem.
Basil Gill, Vanin, Verrin, every good inkeeper. I desperately hope that Sylas does a follow up sometime in the future when he gets farther along in the series. These books are full of wonderful fat characters, their size is just not focused on they way Laras and Keille’s are.
I feel like it’s worth noting that the two women who are the subjects of this comparison are being described by different people in the narrative. Mat especially tends to dwell on women’s appearance pretty much every time he sees one, and particularly on their attractiveness to him, so it’s not all that surprising that he’d think of Keille in that fashion.
@@.-@ – I’m pretty sure that when Jordan uses the term “plump” he means something akin to what the kids these days would call “thicc” rather than overweight. Mat certainly uses the same term to essentially mean “well-endowed”.
I looked at it this way; Laras was an actual large woman; while Keille was the illusion of a large woman as imagined by an appearance obsessed forsaken. Thus Keille is light on her feet; has a ‘very pleasant voice’ and never sweats in the desert.
@6 – I think you’ve missed the point a bit. Sylas isn’t saying “Jordan made every fat character evil,” he’s pointing out the difference between how two fat characters are described. The characters who are basically decent people never get called “fat” and don’t have undue emphasis placed on their weight. The evil character, however, is called fat and the narration goes into detail on her fatness in a way it doesn’t for other fat characters.
Does the explanation that Lanfear was purposefully disguising herself as a remarkably, unusually overweight person make sense? Yes. But Jordan still could’ve chosen from any number of ways for Lanfear to disguise herself, and it’s unfortunate that the only person called “fat” in the series is an evil and unpleasant one.
As to hating “these types of articles” — is it so bad to be aware of the internal, subconcious biases that are common in our society? No one’s saying “Jordan hated fat people and you should hate him and his books.” It’s important to think critically about the media you enjoy, and you can still enjoy it while recognizing that some things could’ve been done better. Fans are certainly willing to acknowledge the Plotline of Doom, so acknowledging that Jordan could’ve handled fat characters better shouldn’t be too hard.
I’m pretty sure Chel Vanin is called fat in very unflattering terms (he and Kellie are described in Mat’s POV chapters, so see a pattern there) and he’s one of the good guys.
Chel Vanin’s introduction to the story, Chapter 22, Lord of Chaos:
I think it hinges on Mat’s POV.
Mat is extremely sleazy. Period. At one point in book 7 he sees a dead girl and feels kinda sad “because she really had a nice bosom”. He’s a boy from a farm who really never wanted anything else.
It’s kinda unfair that he gets away with all of this because he is just a fan favourite for being funny but maybe that’s a statement on how the “boys will be boys” sentiment is creating an asymmetrical situation for women and men.
Nynaeve doesn’t just “get away” with it because in the hyper-feminine context of Tar Valon, such things are policed. Mat is just randomly in the Aiel waste by grace of being Rand’s Childhood friend and doesn’t really have a place. Keep in kind that Mat spends all this time trying to seduce a woman that is in a relationship. He is a young boy actively trying to avoid responsibility.
In an adaptation, this could be resolved though by breaking Mat’s POV or having him make a joke about it and no one laughing, adding to the feeling that no one exactly wants him along in the waste.
@17, I believe you are referring to the terrible aftermath of the battle with the Gholam. Mat looking at the dead thinks to himself that he’s not going to be admiring a dead Kin woman’s figure anymore. Oddly perhaps I took that as a painful acknowledgement that she wasn’t going to be enjoying life and her sexuality anymore, rather than as Mat regretting a piece of scenery.
And Mat isn’t randomly in the Waste, he’s been sent there – and he resents the fact. Isendre has made it quite clear that she’s far from committed to her current relationship, though her eye is on Rand not Mat.
Seems like a hot take for the sake of a hot take.
Yes, there are inherent social biases towards fat people. But that doesn’t mean fat people can’t be evil. Whatever else one may want to say, fat or overweight characters are given a wide variety of motivations and fall all along the “good-evil” spectrum, just like thin or handsome or beautiful characters do.
It’s almost obnoxious, because Sylas makes this all very clear and yet doesn’t want to admit to the essential decency of the narrative. Nynaeve succumbs to negative social mores and judges Laras before being told that she is one of the most decent, humane people in the series – not only someone who believes in doing what is right because it’s right, but someone who is willing to speak that truth to the most powerful person in the world (not counting the yet-unknown Seanchan Empress) despite the risk to her position and authority.
And all of that “body positive” development is completely ignored in focusing 90% of the piece on Keille. Who cares if Keille is fat? Isendre is stunningly beautiful, and the non-Mat characters all acknowledge that she’s also a snake in the grass. Insisting that fat characters only be portrayed positively is nearly as damaging a stereotype as the reverse.
@19 I don’t think anyone’s asking for that? There does seem to be an appreciation for the nuance. The whole point of this series is to look at the books with fresh eyes in the modern day, and it doesn’t hurt to look critically at things like this that have particular potential to subscribe to outdated standards of behavior and tone.
I do think it’s worth reiterating that a lot of the effects seen in this post, though, do fall down to Mat and his propensity for colorful language, even before he went and got a whole second one stuffed into his head. In general, the narrative generally seems to track with the limited-third perspective making note of character-appropriate things given the active POV.
I’d just like to point out that while you can’t chose whether you’re natutally attractive, what sex of people you prefer or what race you are, barring a few exceptions you can choose whether you become fat. So yes you can totally judge before for that (or their lifestyle in general).
As for Keille, as pointed out earlier, she’s a diguise created by a Forsaken who is obsessed by good looks so of course she went over the top and it’s not surprising that Mat picks up and comments on the incongruity.
Amazing that a novel series that started 30 years doesn’t agree with modern trends of acceptance!
Maybe you should take it as a product of its time and don’t let it bother you.
Especially since one of the characters says to never trust skinny innkeepers.
And yeah, there have been plenty of other fat side characters up to this point already with plenty more to come. Basel Gill’s belly spends a lot of time straining various items of clothing, as I recall… as is the case of most inkeepers, as already noted by others. Vanin looks like, and sits a saddle like, a sack of suet. Nobody fat in Rand’s orbit past this point that comes to mind actually… Deira Bashere maybe? Seem to recall at least one larger person among the Queens Guardwomen, and a variety of Aes Sedai including Verin.
That absolutely zero attention is paid to the fact that we are in a very deep third person narrative, and that such a narrative device might factor in to the choice Jordan uses in each situation, speaks volumes here.
The very first place I would look at a discrepancy in word choice in this narrative is whose POV we are in. There is no omniscient narrative here. Even when Jordan is not using free and direct style, the third person narrative is still DEEPLY embedded in the character’s thoughts.
The word choice is Mat’s. It speaks to how Mat thinks. He’s still a touch shallow. And that may never change.
This post feels extremely forced. I won’t repeat all the points previous commenters have made, but I remember during my first read thinking that Wheel of Time was much more body positive than pop culture was back then. There are good and evil people, both male and female, spanning the whole range of body types. Jordan mostly separates descriptions of bodies from statements of character, and when he doesn’t, it’s more of a comment on the PoV character than the person being described.
Laras is an awesome badass, and Nynaeve gets scolded immediately for jumping to conclusions about her. Keille is fat because Lanfear is vain and superficial, and thus believes it would be a brilliant disguise. That’s about her; it’s not an authorial statement.
A thing I noticed in the later books is the character Sylvase Caeren, who appears in the PoV sections of two antagonist characters, who are both unpleasant, entitled, petty aristocrats. In both of them she is described in unflattering terms, even though the point of view characters have reasons to think of her as an ally, if not a friend, and both have reasons to feel bad for her, because they note she is being kept under the control of a disgusting grandfather. Elenia describes her as “a sturdy placid young woman…an unvarying cow-like expression”. Arymilla describes her as “sturdy and not quite pretty…usually had a vapid gaze…” Then later on, Elayne meets her, as a member of her enemy coalition who might or might not become an ally. Elayne sees her as “A pretty woman with alert blue eyes.” Where both Arymilla and Elenia take Sylvase’s pose of unintelligence at face value and even when they note incongruent details, gloss over them, Elayne assesses her intelligence on the basis of her reactions and responses to Elayne’s own words, and quickly determines that she isn’t stupid and might be used to harsher methods than she herself prefers. Elayne is clearly the more observant and competent assessor of the three women from a Watsonian perspective and the more reliable narrator from a Doylist standpoint, and she has a more flattering assessment of Sylvase’s appearance, before she even has any reason to think Sylvase is of more than secondary importance, that could weight her judgment.
On the other hand, while from Rand’s & Mat’s point of view, Else Grinwell is usually described as attractive. “Dark haired, big eyed and pretty” is Rand’s description and Mat certainly reacts as if he agrees when he thinks he sees her in the White Tower. He even attributes the difference in her attitude with her activities since he last saw her. But one chapter later, Egwene describes her to another woman as “…plump, and pretty in a way…” Elayne, on the next page says “If I had thought Else could outrun you…she has always looked too plump for running to me…” Because they don’t like Else, because they see her as lazy and a poor schoolmate, although Elayne and Min seem to have tried to be friends with her when they first met, as character members of the Rand Crush Club.
So we see that Jordan uses descriptions of characters to show use differences between the narrators who describe them in their stream of consciousness, possibly to show the maturation of a character, as Elayne moves from cracking a joke about another girl’s weight to more positive views of female appearance, or else to show how Else gets on their nerves that the same woman who doesn’t fall into her enemies’ habits of denigration doesn’t have the same acceptance or positive attitude toward an annoying classmate.
Jordan’s descriptions can tell you as much about the person describing something or someone as it can about the object of the description.